The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

00:00:08:14 - 00:00:33:16
Kevin Eikenberry
Questions we ask them every day. Some of us do it more effectively than others. But because we do it every day, because it's so common, we often overlook the importance of questions or assume we're good at asking them simply because of repetition. Yet, as leaders, the questions we ask when and how we ask them are critical to our ultimate success as a leader.

00:00:33:18 - 00:00:58:01
Kevin Eikenberry
And we don't talk about them or think about them enough. We're going to fix that today, as we consider the idea that the answer to our leadership success is actually a question. Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, where we are helping leaders like you grow personally and professionally to lead more effectively and make a bigger, positive difference for your team, organization and the world.

00:00:58:04 - 00:01:24:21
Kevin Eikenberry
If you are listening today, you could join us in the future. Live on your favorite social media platform. You can find out how to do that. When to do that and where to do that by joining either our Facebook or LinkedIn groups. Two of the platforms which we live stream on. You can go to remarkable podcast.com/facebook or remarkable podcast.com/linkedin.

00:01:24:23 - 00:01:42:22
Kevin Eikenberry
And if you do either one of those two things, you'll be in know and ready to go for future live streams. If you like what you're hearing today and want help in developing the leaders in your organization, let's talk. Reach out to info at Kevin, I can be.com and we'll schedule time to learn about your needs and share how we might help.

00:01:43:03 - 00:02:08:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Now let me bring in our guests. That's why you came. So there they are. They're showing up on the screen. And let me introduce them to you today. Our guests are Dominic Ashley Tims and Laura Ashley Tims. They coauthored their bestseller. The answer is a question the missing superpower that changes everything and will transform your impact as a manager and leader.

00:02:08:19 - 00:02:36:03
Kevin Eikenberry
They are the co-founders of Notion, an international performance improvement consultancy established in 2000 with a team of experts. Their company has been recognized for its work with the FTSE and fortune 500 clients, with a string of awards for innovation, learning, design and commercial impact for their measurable solutions, beating out industry titans and today they're they're joining us on the show.

00:02:36:09 - 00:02:39:18
Kevin Eikenberry
Welcome to the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, you guys.

00:02:39:20 - 00:02:42:13
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Thank you. Thanks for having us.

00:02:42:15 - 00:02:43:10
Laura Ashley-Timms
Here, Kevin.

00:02:43:12 - 00:03:06:00
Kevin Eikenberry
It's my pleasure. So, always an extra bonus when the guests have on clothes that match the color. Just say I wanted someone to note. I wanted you to know that I noticed it, so I know it was on purpose. So, let's start with this. Dominic. What's the big idea of the book?

00:03:06:02 - 00:03:27:15
Dominic Ashley-Timms
The big idea. It really stems from the fact that we have departments around the world, each in reinventing their own wheel. When it comes to their, their version of a manager. And in all the work we've done, what we've found is there really isn't a universal idea of what effective management looks like, and there isn't a shared model.

00:03:27:17 - 00:03:51:06
Dominic Ashley-Timms
I think all of us have a sense of what we're supposed to be doing as a manager, but we're not guided by an overriding or an overarching philosophy of what it means to really engage with people. And so that really is the basis of our work. And having worked with managers and leaders all around the world. We've been able to define a core set of behaviors, which really do change the way the managers can effectively engage with their team.

00:03:51:06 - 00:03:55:11
Dominic Ashley-Timms
So that's really the central principle of our work.

00:03:55:13 - 00:04:16:02
Kevin Eikenberry
We're going to talk about those behaviors in a little bit. Laura, why you guys like it's one thing to say, here's the book. Here's the big idea of the book. But what why is it you two that should have written it, and it gives you a chance to maybe talk a little bit about what's underneath it, because I think it's a really important story.

00:04:16:04 - 00:04:38:05
Laura Ashley-Timms
I well, I think we've wanted to put some of our ideas. We've been around, as you mentioned, since 2020. You know, 25, 26 years, namely, that we've been running this business and that's kind of a lot of information and stuff's going on. And we've learned so much over those years. But it was really a pivotal moment that we realized that a lot of what was going on in the space that we worked wasn't really having any measurable impact.

00:04:38:07 - 00:04:58:05
Laura Ashley-Timms
And it then became our mission to really change that. And we talked about putting this book together for years. And obviously business takes over, life takes over, three kids takes over, and you just never create space to do something like this. And it was really only when we did a massive academic study, on behalf of the UK government with the London School of Economics.

00:04:58:07 - 00:05:18:11
Laura Ashley-Timms
And at the end of this big, big project, we kind of were told, you've actually now got to share this. You have a due diligence to the world and to society to actually share it. And we've crafted, you know, a decade of IP and everything. And we were very precious and protective of that. And we kind of had to take that big leap of faith and, and just put it out there.

00:05:18:16 - 00:05:45:18
Laura Ashley-Timms
And we crafted this book to really as much value as physically possible to share information and philosophy and content, to really help every individual leader or manager in the world and harness that capability of driving phenomenal engagement, fantastic teams, high performing teams, but also actually to have a better life for themselves and enjoying every day at work. And we call that epic workplace culture.

00:05:45:21 - 00:05:54:02
Laura Ashley-Timms
And and for us, that's really what's behind this book, is our passion to drive better workplaces everywhere.

00:05:54:04 - 00:06:16:05
Kevin Eikenberry
So, Dominic, you mentioned this at the start. And, I certainly concur that most all organizations, many of them consciously are trying to figure out what do we really want from our leaders and managers and what does that really look like? And that search didn't start, in the last five years, and it didn't start 25 years ago when you guys started.

00:06:16:05 - 00:06:42:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Didn't start 30 years ago when I started. It's been something people were working on for a long time. And all three of us sit on the shoulders of giants who have worked on this stuff for a long time. Yeah. Given all of that and given that for the last, say, 15 years, whatever people's actual model is, most of them will say, well, our leaders need to be better coaches.

00:06:42:09 - 00:06:59:19
Kevin Eikenberry
Pretty much everyone's going to agree with that statement. And if we've been working on this so long and we have agreement on that point, why is it that we're not getting collectively as leaders? Why are we not getting better at this thing called coaching?

00:06:59:21 - 00:07:20:05
Dominic Ashley-Timms
You've raised a really powerful point. And if you look at the global investments in coaching and coaching skills training, it's been increasing certainly over the last 15 years. But there's the strong research that there's a survey done a few years ago by the, the Chartered Institute of Personnel Development, and they asked employees to rank 15 different skills of their managers.

00:07:20:05 - 00:07:45:08
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And guess what came at the bottom? Coaches me on the job. So so we actually we did some significant research around this about a decade or so ago to look at and to really understand what's going on. And what we found was quite surprising. You know, organizations, of course, want to bring coaching into their organizations. But when they turn to the training market, the only training that existed was the training to teach people to be an executive coach.

00:07:45:10 - 00:08:02:06
Dominic Ashley-Timms
So they simply lifted that training up, brought it into the organization, rebadged it and called it manager as coach. But what we found is that whilst managers who are going through these programs really, really enjoy the program, who wouldn't? I mean, there's it's interesting stuff. What they found was it's not really fit for purpose when they return to a busy workplace.

00:08:02:06 - 00:08:08:08
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Work is not made up of a series of sit down, 1 to 1 coaching sessions. So it's not.

00:08:08:08 - 00:08:09:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Only those.

00:08:09:07 - 00:08:28:02
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Right? No, not not only those. Absolutely. I mean, the busy operational environment, I mean, managers are very, very challenged. Plus, on top of that, no one really address the discomfort that comes from trying to be an honest coach to someone who's a direct report for whom you already hold your own agenda. So it's really, really challenging to make that work and really bring.

00:08:28:02 - 00:08:30:12
Kevin Eikenberry
In someone that you work with every day.

00:08:30:16 - 00:08:49:00
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And someone you work with every day. So it's incredibly challenging. And managers that we spoke to, many, many managers told us that they really like the ideas, but it just it doesn't fit and it's very uncomfortable. And really, that's that was, a really turning point for us because what we found was that organizations were trying to get their managers to be coaches.

00:08:49:02 - 00:09:20:10
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And I guess our work comes to this from a very different angle. We're not teaching them to be coaches. We're teaching them how to use coaching related behaviors. So really making that a part of their everyday management style. So it's actually the way that I would conduct myself as a manager. How am I using what we call purposeful inquiry in those instances where I can have a moment to simulate someone else's thinking and get them to engage their problem solving skills so that those problems aren't coming back to me all the time.

00:09:20:12 - 00:09:42:01
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And this is a this is a default trap that we all fall into as managers. We end up taking on work ourselves, which is why, there's reports now, certainly in the US of 50% of all managers and executives report feeling burnt out. And it's no surprise why. I mean, business is accelerating a huge pace, but all of that ends up being on the shoulders of the managers.

00:09:42:05 - 00:09:51:11
Dominic Ashley-Timms
We've got to find a different way of engaging the skills and the resources of our teams, and that is the focus of our work, which we call operational coaching.

00:09:51:13 - 00:10:14:07
Kevin Eikenberry
So we can have a long conversation, the three of us, I'm confident about all of that. And we can even have a conversation about, how we bring in leaders, people into leadership roles. And there's a bunch of reasons why some of these coaching behaviors that that we're going to talk about here are hard for us as leaders.

00:10:14:09 - 00:10:36:23
Kevin Eikenberry
It's because we were so good at the work, and we got promoted because we were good at the work, right? That's sort of underneath it. And that's what I love. Laura, it's one of things I love about your model. We're talking about the star model and you talk about that in a second. But because, maybe the hardest part of the star model is the first step.

00:10:37:01 - 00:10:55:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Because if because we're conditioned to not be ready to do the first step. So that's. I'm not going to say anymore. I'm going to turn it over. Laura, let me tell us. Just, I really want to unpack this model a little bit. And there's so many things we could do that are in the book, and I know that we could have a really interesting conversation with.

00:10:55:17 - 00:11:11:19
Kevin Eikenberry
I really want to unpack the model and then really dive into the A of the model. That's sort of where I want us to head. But talking about the star model briefly, Laura, to help us get context about how to start to solve the problem that Dominic described for us.

00:11:11:21 - 00:11:30:10
Laura Ashley-Timms
Absolutely. So, so when we were looking into this really in depth, we identified that pretty much all the models out there were looking at everything from the up, up, you know, from the angle of the coach, the other person. We realized that we needed to design a model that was 100% for the leader, a manager themselves, to help them make that shift.

00:11:30:10 - 00:11:47:20
Laura Ashley-Timms
You decide to actually move from title to instead learn to us because we are all, most of us, accidental managers. About 80% of us have got promoted because we were really, really good at what we did. And then this people thing just gets bolted on to our new job, on new promotion, and it's all, we don't want to do it.

00:11:47:20 - 00:12:10:23
Laura Ashley-Timms
It's just not what we were good at when we got promoted. So we recognized that, this to address this gender issue about who's holding the agenda, we needed, a model that was going to really be for the manager and on their side. And so we divided the model into two. So the star model stands for stop, think, ask and get a result.

00:12:11:01 - 00:12:35:20
Laura Ashley-Timms
But just to break that into the first half, the first half stop and think is all about me changing my behavior as a manager. Because if I don't do that, nothing else will change. And you're absolutely right, Kevin. That first step, which is stop and change state, is building that habitual response. When someone comes to you with a problem and they come to you to ask for help, your gut and what you want to do is help them.

00:12:35:20 - 00:12:56:08
Laura Ashley-Timms
And because we're all good at what we do when we got promoted because we were good at that, just telling someone what to do. And the answer, the tell seems to be the quickest thing to do. But if you can just break that habit and learn in that split second to bite your tongue and stop and actually think that that split seconds, here's the thing and ask a question instead.

00:12:56:08 - 00:13:16:02
Laura Ashley-Timms
A is to ask and actually listen. If you can just break that habit with the s and T, then in that moment, you're now giving the other person an opportunity to build confidence and come up with their own ideas. And actually, within a very short space of time, days, weeks, people start coming to you with solutions and not problems.

00:13:16:02 - 00:13:34:19
Laura Ashley-Timms
And before you know it, you're, you go from being overwhelmed and stressed, as Dominick said, to actually getting up to 20% of your time back as a day a week. If you're a full time worker, that is significant and that is life changing in the caliber of the work and the enjoyment you can have at work and your team are more engaged as well.

00:13:34:19 - 00:13:53:04
Laura Ashley-Timms
So that model what's and T is critical and that's the behavior side. And then, as you rightly said, Kevin, the second half of the model is about a is fast and we can go deep into that and actually listen. But then R is the getting a result because we're line managers and leaders. This isn't a nice cozy coaching chat sort of thing.

00:13:53:06 - 00:14:12:18
Laura Ashley-Timms
It's not some soft and fluffy thing. We need an outcome. We need the results from that conversation. And that last part of the model is really about helping someone take accountability to the next step. Not some big goal, not some long term thing, just the next thing they're going to do. Maybe this afternoon, maybe tomorrow. And then how we're going to, follow up on that as line managers.

00:14:12:20 - 00:14:15:00
Laura Ashley-Timms
So that's kind of the star model.

00:14:15:02 - 00:14:34:18
Kevin Eikenberry
If we don't, if we do what we habitually do, if we don't do the stop step, if we don't, if we don't, have a pattern interrupt, if you will, we've got no shot to do the rest. Like I want us in the rest of this conversation. I'm talking out to the audience more than I am to the two of you.

00:14:34:20 - 00:14:58:07
Kevin Eikenberry
I want us to help you get better at the questioning part. But if we don't get the S and the T right, we never get to the questioning part. And because we're living in, I'm not still the technical expert, I'm going to do the telling and I love actually, excuse me, Laura, what you said is that it's because we really want to be helpful.

00:14:58:07 - 00:15:34:09
Kevin Eikenberry
So I want for all of you if you're sort of feeling guilty at this moment to grant yourself some grace, because what you've done normally is trying to do what you think is most helpful, it's just that it isn't necessarily most helpful right before we're done. So let's talk. Before we get to ask, though, I want to do, let's say a little bit more about t, because, Dominic, when you guys talk about that, the think step you, you encourage us to ask an internal question, which is, okay, is this a teachable moment or not?

00:15:34:14 - 00:15:52:05
Kevin Eikenberry
Because like, not every time should we go all the way through this sometimes like, okay, what do I need to do here? I what I don't need to do, and I really want you to do is talk about the coachable moment for a second. So, help us understand that idea because it's critical for us to get better at this operationally.

00:15:52:07 - 00:16:09:12
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Yeah, you're quite right. And I think in the hurly burly of work. Yeah, we're rushing from one thing to another thing. We're being pulled from pillar to post. People want our attention. They want us to help solve problems. Having having put in place that pattern. Interrupt where actually stop. Someone comes to me for help if I can learn to bite my tongue.

00:16:09:17 - 00:16:42:17
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And we show people how to do this in our programs, how to put in those triggers to be able to stop just for long enough to think about. And this is really about coming into the moment. Think about what does this person in front of me need for me right now. And that's quite a profound question because it, you know, willingness to help in all our research, what we find is that in that moment of helping someone, what we've actually done is we've robbed them of an opportunity for them to show the thinking they could have done in that moment.

00:16:42:19 - 00:17:00:11
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And we send them away with a fleeing area to do our bidding. So something really has been lost. And what we're actually doing is we're marginalizing the people who work for us, because if we're always feeding them the instructions and the you know what we want them to go away and do, they're never really getting a chance to shine.

00:17:00:11 - 00:17:19:05
Dominic Ashley-Timms
They're never showing the thinking they could do. Plus, on top of that, if we're really honest with ourselves, we're simply recycling our old knowledge. The minute you instruct someone or tell them what to do, you've denied any opportunity in that moment where a new idea could have come up, or they could have shown us a new insight. We get to kind of, oh, that's really interesting.

00:17:19:05 - 00:17:40:08
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Let's work on that together. So t that te moment is, is exactly that is a little metric that each of us will have to derive for ourselves. That really runs us through a really quick sort of check. Is is this a coachable moment right now? Have I, you know, is this person really under stress or duress? Is this a good time or could they entertain a question?

00:17:40:10 - 00:17:55:06
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And you know, what do they need from if they probably don't need me to give them the answer? If we really tune into that moment, we might find that actually they just need a bit of a confidence boost, or they've sort of got an idea of what they should be doing, but they want to de-risk that slightly.

00:17:55:08 - 00:18:15:03
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And yeah, and maybe they just want to have a knock around an idea and actually have someone help them, you know, better formulate an action that they can take so that that moment and they often it's just the moment we, we, we tune into what is this person really where are they at right now? And that really helps us.

00:18:15:03 - 00:18:23:22
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Then think about a question we can ask that's going to be most helpful to them for where they're at right now to help their thinking.

00:18:24:00 - 00:18:44:21
Kevin Eikenberry
And we have to be present to do that. Here's the here's the paradox of all this and what I love about this conversation is it's that pattern interrupt that that intentionally moving past our automatic response, right, that we have to do. And you guys have done a fabulous job both in the book and in this conversation of helping us see how we before we can go the rest of the way.

00:18:45:03 - 00:19:08:11
Kevin Eikenberry
But the paradox that I have long found about these moments is that every leader will say, well, I want my team to grow. I want them to be thinking, I want them to, you know, I want them to to bring new ideas. And yet in these moments when we go on our automatic response of telling, we're teaching them that's not what we want.

00:19:08:12 - 00:19:29:15
Kevin Eikenberry
Even if deep down that is exactly what we want is to get their ideas. So, let's talk about the asking part. And, and and Laura, as you introduced it earlier, you kept saying, as you do in the book, ask and actively listen. But really, what I and there's a tremendous amount of stuff in the book about questions, and we don't have time to unpack it all.

00:19:29:18 - 00:19:59:06
Kevin Eikenberry
First of all, because everyone needs to get a copy of the answer is a question. I will tell you how to do that before we're done. If you're not already, you know, googling it or Amazon ING it for yourself. But I want you to talk about three types of questions clarify, compare, and explore. Can you just give us, Laura, a little bit about how we can use these types of questions to be more intentional and effective with our questioning?

00:19:59:08 - 00:20:18:11
Laura Ashley-Timms
Absolutely. So there's a couple of, concepts and models that we have in the book to really help people think about how to ask more powerful questions. So often when we're looking at questions, we are asking questions historically because we want to data collect so that we can get the facts, that we can actually help you come to a better solution.

00:20:18:16 - 00:20:35:01
Laura Ashley-Timms
What we're saying is you don't want to do any of that when you're looking at questions. What you want to do instead is come to this question class that's going to help the other person have better ideas. So first of all, you've got to clear your mind of what we even mean by asking questions on what's the purpose of the question.

00:20:35:03 - 00:21:08:12
Laura Ashley-Timms
And then within that, we break it into kind of different layers. So think of an onion that you're peeling an onion. So there's different types of questions. As you mentioned. There's different time scales. You might ask questions. And there's also different ways you want the brain to behave when you're asking questions. You might, you know, want to to create other elements within all of that, we realized there were no role models and no real, no real research out there, actually, of anything around the taxonomy of how you can ask these sorts of questions.

00:21:08:16 - 00:21:25:20
Laura Ashley-Timms
So one of the things, that Dominic spent a huge amount of work and I work from the press is this he's the one that managed to put this together. He created a whole model around the art of asking questions. Good question that we do deep dive quite a lot and not going to try and unpick that in that in the short time we have together.

00:21:25:22 - 00:21:53:01
Laura Ashley-Timms
But the idea is there's different ways you can approach. There we go. Thank you so much, Kevin. So there's different kind of layers and different ways you can ask and then you can put these together and have a bit of fun with it and have a bit of a play with it. So if I was to give you just some examples of what of what that means when you kind of put this hanging together, we've got I mean, in the, in the program we have like packs of cards and stuff as well as a book and things like that to help embed this behavioral shift that you were talking about.

00:21:53:03 - 00:22:14:10
Laura Ashley-Timms
But if you talk about a change context question, if I give you an example. So an example of a change context question is imagine this has been achieved already. Looking back, what was it that had to change. So we're trying to change the context of how someone is looking at a problem by actually taking a different perspective, changing how they're thinking about it.

00:22:14:14 - 00:22:33:03
Laura Ashley-Timms
So that's an example of how you might do that. So that was a reflective question as well. So that's important. That got them to reflect for themselves. It gets them to think for the future. So I talked about this different onions. That's a question that gets into think future think something and then look back as well as change context.

00:22:33:04 - 00:22:50:06
Laura Ashley-Timms
We talked about shift perspective as well. So here's a question. What advice would you give to a colleague in your situation. So you've got a problem getting to think you know what would someone know what advice if someone came to you with that problem getting to shift your perspective. And in that example that's now in the present.

00:22:50:06 - 00:23:08:00
Laura Ashley-Timms
We're not in the future. When I'm talking about right now, what would you do? Again, it's reflective. It's getting people to shift perspective. If you want to challenge someone's barriers, you might say something like, what is it that makes you think that often we have these preconceptions that it's not we're not allowed to do something and then.

00:23:08:00 - 00:23:10:05
Kevin Eikenberry
Put ourselves in a box? Yep. Absolutely.

00:23:10:05 - 00:23:38:14
Laura Ashley-Timms
Rightly so. Shifting that can be so important. Just making people realize, you know, no one said you can't do that. Go and do it. Go. Yeah, yeah. Be free to go and explore and do that and again. So that's another present. But these are different ways you can get to things. And probably my favorite is I call this the part the relationship of a question, which, can't surprise you who made me learn this question, which is what does my partner need from me right now?

00:23:38:16 - 00:23:39:22
Laura Ashley-Timms
So that's.

00:23:40:00 - 00:23:42:13
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Another question. Great saving question right there.

00:23:42:15 - 00:24:03:11
Kevin Eikenberry
Oh, so that seems like an entree. Dominic. So, are there if we just had a couple of more moments, which is what we do. If we had a couple more moments for you to add a couple of thoughts about helping us ask questions more powerfully. So what would you add to what Laura's just said?

00:24:03:13 - 00:24:30:11
Dominic Ashley-Timms
I think one of the most remarkable things we see is, is people very quickly gain a sense of what makes for a more intentional or purposeful question. We're so used to asking questions, as Laura said, that just a gathering information so that then I can solve the problem for you. So I'm doing all the work, I'm doing all the heavy lifting, but actually asking a question in a way that's going to provoke thinking on the part of the person you get a sense that there's there's more in that question.

00:24:30:13 - 00:24:50:20
Dominic Ashley-Timms
So I think the, the what the question model has really done is really help people gain that sense of what makes for more powerful and intentional questions. And it's something that that we know that managers become fairly adept at fairly quickly. And as they become better practitioners of using this operational coaching. So those questions come to them more naturally.

00:24:50:20 - 00:25:23:04
Dominic Ashley-Timms
They're they're getting better used to using more incisive questions. I mean, I had someone compare it to an artist recently. An artist, a good artist will favor particular a particular palette, particular brushes, and know how to apply them to have a particular effect on the canvas. And I think that's what we find people who are really starting to develop this new style of engage with people, this new management approach is they become, you know, really adept at a sensitive to the circumstances or when someone's in front of them.

00:25:23:06 - 00:25:40:08
Dominic Ashley-Timms
What they need in terms of question is going to stimulate the most helpful thinking for them. And some of these questions and some of these conversations can be exactly one question long. And the person goes, oh, I've got it. Absolutely. I know exactly on it. And they're off. And that's a moment where you did not have to step into that problem.

00:25:40:11 - 00:25:59:04
Dominic Ashley-Timms
You did not have to end up taking on elements of that onto your work stack, and you're freeing that individual to go away and do something where now you have an opportunity to follow up with them and give them some really positive and appreciative feedback, where if you just instructed them, that opportunity has gone away. We don't have that opportunity.

00:25:59:04 - 00:26:06:15
Dominic Ashley-Timms
So I think that's what I would add to that. I think this is this is a skill that people can quickly, take on board.

00:26:06:17 - 00:26:30:06
Kevin Eikenberry
One of the things I want to underline for all of you that are listening is this is that notice that while Laura did give you a couple of questions, the largest part of this conversation has been about getting intentional about the desire to and to be clear about why you're asking the questions. And then Dominic said, you will figure out the questions once we get the intention right.

00:26:30:08 - 00:26:54:10
Kevin Eikenberry
And once we get out of our auto responsive telling. And I'm a big fan of having a bunch of questions that I can use, but that's but that's only helpful really once we have the intention. Right. And that's what I love about this whole conversation. I appreciate the way that you've come at this and the way that you've shared it, not only in our conversation, but in the book.

00:26:54:12 - 00:26:54:17
Kevin Eikenberry
Because.

00:26:54:17 - 00:27:13:23
Dominic Ashley-Timms
It has to be it has to be authentic as well. That's the thing. I mean, learning a laundry list of questions is, is is inauthentic. Actually that that you you help me describe earlier that that taking that moment to think about what does the first need for me authentically, then a question will occur to you that that you know is going to be most helpful to them.

00:27:13:23 - 00:27:32:11
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And I think that's the thing at the minute, people sense that you're just going through a mechanism. Something's wrong to this movement. You're not you're not an engaging in enabling manager that when you're going, you're going through some sort of, some, some mechanism which is an authentic look.

00:27:32:13 - 00:27:47:12
Laura Ashley-Timms
I was just going to add to that as well, is you don't have to be perfect. It's almost there's no bad question. If you come in with good intention and you ask the question and it wasn't a very effective question, you can always go, actually give me a second and you can ask the more powerful question. You can reframe that question.

00:27:47:12 - 00:28:04:17
Laura Ashley-Timms
You can rethink that question. No one needs to be perfect. This is just about having the intention and just getting into the habit of asking instead of telling. So don't ever worry about, oh, I haven't got the perfect half a question, just start asking questions and they'll get better and stronger over time.

00:28:04:19 - 00:28:36:03
Kevin Eikenberry
And sometimes will ask the question and the intention will be misinterpreted by the other person. And when that happens, you see that too. And just, you know, getting time out. Let me let me ask it again because I'm not sure what I, what I meant in my asking is how you're feeling. And I have found that when we are willing to do that, especially as a boss, that a great deal of grace is is granted and trust is built in those moments.

00:28:36:05 - 00:28:58:10
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Yeah. You've raised a really important point there because one of the, one of the things that, managers that undertaking this learning go through is really the, the importance of changing their mindsets about the person in front of them. If you have an idea in your head and you asking leading questions in order to take them up the garden path to your arranged solution, people will sense.

00:28:58:10 - 00:29:23:09
Dominic Ashley-Timms
So again, the authenticity is gone. So this is really about, you know, thinking about, you know, have I got the time? Is it is appropriate. Is this a coachable moment? What question could I ask them. And really genuinely helping them to to come up with something that they are confident to take forward and action not not solve the world, not solve the whole problem, but an action they can take in which they will build confidence.

00:29:23:11 - 00:29:46:17
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And that's as the lowest point. The things can change really rapidly. And we see we, we manage it all the time that things change within about two weeks. Those people who are coming to you regularly for guidance and support, you set up an unfortunate habits. They they they're not confident to act under their own agency. They they almost need that confirmation from you.

00:29:46:17 - 00:29:53:18
Dominic Ashley-Timms
That goes away because you're demonstrating by the very act of asking someone questions that you have confidence in their ability.

00:29:53:20 - 00:30:15:23
Kevin Eikenberry
You are changing the way the game is played. Without question. So the last part of star is the R, which is result. Get a commit, get a commitment to act. I think people get like we all get that one intellectually. I think as leaders we probably, can do that. Well, you say something on page 135. I'm not going to ask you to tell me what the think.

00:30:16:00 - 00:30:34:07
Kevin Eikenberry
I'm going to read it to you. I'm going to read you this, and then I want you to respond because I think it's it's it's the piece of the result thing that I want you to talk about. Before we start to wrap up. You say that, follow up is a sign of support, not a sign that we don't trust them.

00:30:34:09 - 00:30:40:02
Kevin Eikenberry
I find that leaders often don't are worried about that. So talk about that for a second.

00:30:40:04 - 00:31:03:15
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And I'd like to say that when I think I have this conversation a lot philosophically, because I truly, truly believe that being a manager is a privilege. And and so often we go into a management role. And because we're not exactly clear on how we're supposed to engage with people, we end up retaining aspects of our former job, which is why then we become overwhelmed very quickly.

00:31:03:17 - 00:31:28:14
Dominic Ashley-Timms
I think, just really thinking about how we're engaging with people and demonstrating that we're interested in what they will do by agreeing with them how we're going to follow up with them. It provides that they that support the people feel they're not just off in the wilderness by themselves. You are saying to them, I'm actually interested in how you're going to be able to do this.

00:31:28:14 - 00:31:51:00
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And actually, when we agree how we're going to follow up, being able to give them some appropriate appreciative feedback is very welcome or even some helpful constructive feedback. Imagine then, that you've gone to the trouble of stopping and thinking and asking a question and agreeing the follow up, and then you don't follow up.

00:31:51:02 - 00:32:05:02
Dominic Ashley-Timms
The lost in belief and trust there that you were talking about just now. It's profound. So we we need to develop a new habit, which is how am I making a mental note, even do I carry a notebook around where I make a mental note the next time I speak to this person to bring this up again, how did it go?

00:32:05:04 - 00:32:26:05
Dominic Ashley-Timms
How are we agreeing that follow up? How am I being a manager who is now being recognized as someone who is an enabler, who is genuinely interested in helping people progress, who is there to be able to give them constructive feedback and build that trust. And that's what we mean when we talk about moving from being an accidental manager towards becoming an intentional manager.

00:32:26:07 - 00:32:47:00
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And it's learning these skills, which just really shifts, are to do lists away from the busy, busy stuff at the top, whether people's at the bottom and actually bringing the people part of it to the top, because then hopefully the busy part will get less because we're enabling our team to be able to take on more from us, and we're helping them to advance as well.

00:32:47:02 - 00:33:02:21
Kevin Eikenberry
100%. So, we need to wrap up. I've got a couple of questions I'd like to ask, and I'm going to ask them now. And they're different than everything we've talked about so far. And this is it. Like, what do you guys do for fun?

00:33:02:23 - 00:33:10:06
Dominic Ashley-Timms
That's a great question. We have an astonishing whiskey collection. Yeah.

00:33:10:08 - 00:33:23:15
Kevin Eikenberry
So next episode of the Rugby. I'm and Laura, in the whiskey collection. And me asking additional questions. I'm just teasing. You want to add anything to that, Laura?

00:33:23:17 - 00:33:42:16
Laura Ashley-Timms
Well, to be fair, it is thought of. We do love it. It's true. We really like the arts, actually. So we're big for the exec. I was, we have seen some amazing stuff over the years. And. Yeah, wherever you are in the world, whether it's stateside or over in the UK, we live near Stratford on Avon, the UK, which is where Shakespeare's from.

00:33:42:18 - 00:33:53:03
Laura Ashley-Timms
And so we have the RSC on our doorstep and some amazing, great theater, obviously at the West End in London. And we go to New York Broadway as well when we get the chance that we love that as well. We just love creative arts.

00:33:53:03 - 00:34:04:07
Kevin Eikenberry
Really awesome. The only thing you knew for sure I would ask you is this question, what are you reading these days? And so, Dominic, you first. What are you reading?

00:34:04:09 - 00:34:21:19
Dominic Ashley-Timms
I picked up this book, and I don't actually know how old it was. I was actually, in a shop recently, and I picked this up. It's called the focus fix. And what what appeals to me about the book is it really entertains the idea of finding space to daydream. And I picked it up because I've noticed over the years I have less and less time to daydream.

00:34:21:21 - 00:34:40:18
Dominic Ashley-Timms
But I know, I know that the when I do have those opportunities, that's where all the great creative ideas and insights come in. And that's why we keep pushing forward on doing what we're doing, because, as Laura said, we get out of bed because of the feedback we have from the managers. They profoundly change their management approach.

00:34:40:23 - 00:34:52:13
Dominic Ashley-Timms
So the focus fixes, I'm hoping, is helping me to build more daydreaming into my into my life to help me, come up with the next round of ideas for how we continue to promote this movement.

00:34:52:15 - 00:34:55:21
Kevin Eikenberry
Excellent. Laura, what are you reading really?

00:34:55:21 - 00:35:14:07
Laura Ashley-Timms
Honestly, mostly current affairs. Obviously, we have been through a really, crazy few years running a business, and it is always a journey and always interesting. And I kind of paused my reading when we were writing the book, cause I don't want to be influenced by anything, and I want to make sure all our pure thoughts went into it.

00:35:14:12 - 00:35:31:06
Laura Ashley-Timms
I got out of the habit of reading kind of books, if if that makes sense. So I am literally every day I am in current affairs magazines and current affairs, papers, just really understanding what's going on in the world and how we can better support it. In the work we're doing with our clients.

00:35:31:08 - 00:35:36:01
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And all the leadership management press, of course we we, we follow all of that.

00:35:36:03 - 00:35:44:05
Kevin Eikenberry
And, Laura, how can people learn more? Where do you want to point people? They will learn more about your work, about the star model, about the book, like where you want to point people.

00:35:44:07 - 00:36:02:06
Laura Ashley-Timms
Well, if you see people, please do it for your listeners would like to link in with us. That's always great. We're quite unique on LinkedIn with our surname, so we're quite easy to find, but we've put a special page together for everyone called Start Manager, Dot Global Forward Slash Podcast, and we put loads of extra resources in here.

00:36:02:06 - 00:36:22:04
Laura Ashley-Timms
So you'll learn about enough see how you can get more for the book. But we put additional stuff on questions in there. There's some stuff you can download, some extra free resources to really help you kind of get into the art of asking better questions. And, if you're also a sponsor for an organization with popped in there some information about some academic research and some case studies from other organizations or things.

00:36:22:04 - 00:36:27:20
Laura Ashley-Timms
So hopefully a really nice set of resources for you. Please do pop in there and make use of everything.

00:36:27:22 - 00:36:40:05
Dominic Ashley-Timms
And and at the same time, if you're interested in a tool in what we're talking about, then consider undertaking your own journey towards becoming a store manager. And, to adopt this operational coaching approach to management.

00:36:40:07 - 00:37:06:14
Kevin Eikenberry
Star manager Dot global forward slash podcast. Now before we go and before I think, Dominic and Laura for being here. My question for you, my dear listener or viewer is the same as it always is. It's simply this. Now what what action will you take now as a result of being here? Because you chose to spend the time watching and or listening that you could have spent, I don't know, watching something streaming on Netflix?

00:37:06:14 - 00:37:28:04
Kevin Eikenberry
I don't know, or wherever it doesn't matter. But the point is, if you do that, you're just getting entertainment and there's nothing wrong with entertainment. But hopefully when you're here, you were entertained. But more than that, you were edified. But getting educated, getting insights is only half the picture, because it's not enough to simply stop and think.

00:37:28:04 - 00:37:48:21
Kevin Eikenberry
We must then act. And so it's my hope that you got something today that you will take action on. Hopefully, in part that's it is to stop your auto response of telling and start by asking. But whatever that might be, I hope that you will take that action, because if you do this will truly have been useful for you.

00:37:48:23 - 00:37:51:13
Kevin Eikenberry
Laura and Dominic, thanks for being here. It was a pleasure to have you.

00:37:51:17 - 00:37:52:19
Dominic Ashley-Timms
Thank you so much.

00:37:52:21 - 00:37:53:20
Laura Ashley-Timms
Thank you Kevin.

00:37:53:21 - 00:38:16:13
Kevin Eikenberry
And so if you all enjoyed this, if this was your first time, don't make it your last. You can subscribe wherever you watched or heard this to make sure you come back again. If you really like this, you want to share this with others in your organization. Of course, you can point them to this link. But whatever you do, make sure you come back next week, because next week we'll be back with another episode of the remarkable Leadership Podcast.